Truck Insurance: New Players & Big Acquisitions

Raymond Moss: I just got a email from the FMCSA.

Ben Curtis: Really?

Raymond Moss: Yes, they are announcing a new hours of service pilot program for America's truck drivers. So kinda cool. They are piloting the idea of A new policy that would allow truck drivers greater flexibility and control over scheduling. Sounds like they're going to lift some of the hours of service rules that have been in place for a while. I've heard from a lot of different motor carriers that is an aggravating thing for them. You know, you get to the end of your

Ben Curtis: It does seem

Raymond Moss: time route and you don't have a parking space, which is another huge issue. You get to the end of your time and it's like a leash. What do you do? You pull over, you park on a ramp, and then you get a ticket because you can't park on a ramp, you know, all those different things. So yeah, that'll be interesting to see what happens.

Ben Curtis: Yeah. Interesting. All right. Well, a couple of topics we want to cover today. So we want to look at first topic, a few new insurers in the marketplace. Ones that have come up in conversation recently. So we wanna look at a few of those. It's always kind of fun to see who the new players are and what impact they're making. And then we always like to share market updates. So the second thing we have to cover is a key update to the market, kind of a big splash relative. or relevant information to share. So shall we do our intro and then jump into it?

Raymond Moss: Yeah, let's kick it off here. So welcome. Welcome to the podcast that accompanies the DOT Analysis platform, where we discuss real time trends in the truck insurance market and explore answers to the questions you are not allowed to ask. I'm Ray.

Ben Curtis: And I'm Ben, and this is The Inside Lane.

Raymond Moss: Right. Get my cup of coffee here. Always start a morning with a cup of coffee.

Ben Curtis: I love coffee. It's great.

Raymond Moss: I know.

Ben Curtis: How do people live without it? Like the people that hate coffee? Are those people who should be on a watch list, do you think?

Raymond Moss: Well don't worry because they'll they'll soon be converted. We have a we have a guy on our team who for several years said swore to me up and down, he'll never drink coffee. Then his wife got pregnant and I said, Hey, when she has a baby and you are now a young father, you will drink coffee. Mark my words. What does he drink every day now? Coffee. So Yeah. If you're not in it yet, you will be.

Ben Curtis: I think that's what you call coming face to face with reality.

Raymond Moss: That's right. That's right.

Ben Curtis: Kids have a way of bringing you face to face with reality.

Raymond Moss: That is very true. Well, you haven't had any good funnies lately. No good jokes. No good stories. You got any?

Ben Curtis: You know, I think most of what I say is funny, but somehow my kids seem to think the same thing as you that nothing I say is funny.

Raymond Moss: Well I was it all depends on perspectives.

Ben Curtis: Doesn't it really though? All right, yeah, I got one for you here. Let me let's see what you think of this, all right. This is the classic walked into a bar joke, so let me know what you think.

Raymond Moss: good. All right.

Ben Curtis: All right, a producer, a customer service representative, and an underwriter walk into a bar. They're taking a group of clients out for drinks. The producer confidently announces, order what you want. I already promised free drinks for everyone. The underwriter replies, not so fast. Before approving that, I'm gonna need three years of bar receipts, a blood alcohol history on everyone, and confirmation that this establishment has a code compliant fire suppression system. In the meantime, I'll get a pitcher of water for the table. The producer just kicks the CSR under the table, who stammers let me see what I can do and hurries off after the underwriter. The producer turns back to the clients, a confident smile on his face. Twenty minutes later a disheveled CSR returns and says Good news, I got drinks approved. However, it does exclude ice, garnish, and refills. Also, nothing after happy hour is covered. The agent turns to the customers and says proudly, see, I told you I'd take care of it.

Raymond Moss: The only thing inaccurate about that story is I thought it would have been five years of receipts and not three. That's great.

Ben Curtis: Yeah. Gosh, the poor CSRs though, don't they deserve like a special day? Is there a is there a CSR day? Because it feels like there should be.

Raymond Moss: There if there's not, there absolutely should be because I have I was going to say I feel like this is the case, but I know this is the case because I constantly talk to users of our software who are CSRs and they just get caught in the middle, man. You know, you have the agent over here and you have the underwriter over here, and of course we talk to all those groups of people all the time as well, but the CSRs, they're just running, you know, back and forth many times trying to make the impossible possible, and they do. Amazingly enough, they bridge that gap. They are wonderful people.

Ben Curtis: You know, because so much of what we do and our mission is around just improving the lives of at DOT Analysis is improving the lives of truck insurance professionals and CSRs are such rich opportunity for improving the lives of, maybe we should start a national CSR appreciation day.

Raymond Moss: I know, that is a really good idea. You know, I've been in involved in organizations that had that celebrated the national truck driver appreciation day. And this is very much in that same vein, National CSR Appreciation Day. So there we go. Good idea.

Ben Curtis: All right, well we'll have to we'll have to think about that and see if we can come up with something to do on that. All right, well let's jump into our topics for today and start with the new entrants to the truck insurance marketplace that we want to take a look at here today. And these are coming from conversations we've had recently here with some of our customers and contacts. and wanted to take a look at what they're doing and see how they're impacting the market. So the first one I got on my list here, we talked about this the other day. is Concert Group. I think you mentioned this one to me. I don't know a whole

Raymond Moss: yeah. Yep.

Ben Curtis: lot about Concert Group to be honest.

Raymond Moss: Yeah, I ran into to them with a there was a group that a group of clients that I was talking to and they came up because they were growing in a particular state and their name came up, so of course we'd look into their book and you know, start to peel back the different layers of it.

Ben Curtis: All right, well why don't we take a look at Concert Group and show me what you found here and what's interesting about them.

Raymond Moss: If I can spell concert right. There we go. All right. So here's Concert Group. They got two papers. And when we say new, how do you define new, right?

Ben Curtis: yeah, I s yeah,

Raymond Moss: They're not they didn't show up last month or six months ago. but they showed up, you know, two ish years ago and they started writing business and

Ben Curtis: Yeah, I see they've got a little bit of three year old business on their books there in the relationship duration graph.

Raymond Moss: Yeah, so you talk about some of the legacy players that are in this space and three years is new. Two years is new, you know. So that's why we're labeling them that way. So I'm on Market Intelligence here in DOT Analysis and I pulled up Concert Group. They have these two papers. they have a total of call it nineteen hundred policies, which is up by thirty one percent in the past in the past year, which is really cool. They

Ben Curtis: Well, that's definitely not something to gloss over because we've been looking covering a lot of even the big players and a lot of them are either flat or negative over the last year. There's only a handful of companies here that are have are experiencing growth, let alone thirty percent or more. So that's significant.

Raymond Moss: So I'm gonna parse their book a little bit right off the bat here. Let's take out just the single units and let's see how that number tracks. And this is important because a lot of people they you say, hey, they've had 31% growth in the past year, and they look at a book like that and they go, Well, yeah, it's probably all single units. Well, I just want to point this out. They have everything other than single unit, they're still up by twenty five percent. So it's not just those single units that are growing their book. It is, but it's not just that.

Ben Curtis: And then quite a few of our viewers here do just listen and aren't necessarily watching this on YouTube. So just to state that number then, not only twenty five percent growth, but they still have over a thousand policies without that single unit. So the single unit was what just under half their book of business, and then the rest of it is two or more units. Now, very little

Raymond Moss: Yeah, so another inter

Ben Curtis: very little in the fleet. So they're small fleets and non fleet is definitely their focus here.

Raymond Moss: Right. Yeah, absolutely. And I'll point this out. one agency in particular that I was meeting with this week had actually reached out to Concert Group looking for an appointment and got a direct response from them saying that, Hey, you know, we're all set, we've got, you know, really great retail partners right now. We're not looking for any additional agencies to appoint right now. We're happy with our growth and I can see that they are happy with their growth. I mean, it does make sense that story lines up. They didn't say that as arbitrage because they're trying to get out of the market, most likely. You know, that

Ben Curtis: Interesting.

Raymond Moss: lines up.

Ben Curtis: All right, well, before we move on, then let's just do a flyover here of their book and see what's happening. I'm kind of interested in what's happening in the states. Do we want to keep the single unit out or just why don't we just look at their whole book and then people can come back later if they want and drill into the specific segments? But let's see what's happening there. Cause I always am interested, especially when there's that much growth in a book, 31%. Why are there red states? That's always curious to me or interesting to me. So yeah, let's look at the map. I want to see where those are located. Obviously if it's just a couple of policies like I see some of their states, single digits as far as number of policies, okay, that being red or green, way less significant there. But I like to see where their key states are. So yeah, I see

Raymond Moss: Yeah. Well there's a couple yeah, there's a couple states that I'll point out here. So take a look at this. If I just start from left to right, I see California, right? So they got a decent weighting in California.

Ben Curtis: Yeah. A hundred let me say some of the numbers as we go so we don't lose it here for our listeners. So yeah, a hundred and forty two policies in California right now. They're shaded slightly red.

Raymond Moss: yeah, what I was going to say about California is it's just interesting to see. when I went through the time filters on here, I noticed they had a whole bump up in policies in California over a short period of time. But then they kind of plateaued off. And I'm gonna th throw out a conjecture there. Most people are aware of the regulatory change that happened in California about a year ish I'd say maybe it might be a year and a half ago now, where All of those independent contractors had to be reclassified as employers themselves. and so a lot of those guys started their own authority and went out and had to get a filing themselves because they couldn't lease on to another motor carrier. So I would guess that this is painting the picture of a book that's that grew. in California and then plateaued off because all those guys it's not that it was really organically new business necessarily of motor carriers coming into the market. More likely what it was is all those guys who had their own trucks who couldn't operate as an independent contractor leased onto a motor carrier.

Ben Curtis: I know we said let's do a quick flyover, but now I'm too intrigued. Can you just put California in the menu and let's just see what how much of that if that tracks **Ray: Sure.** in California how much my gosh, look at that. Your hypothesis was it's spot on. Look at the single unit business in California. Look at our motor carrier size graph.

Raymond Moss: Yeah, look at that. A hundred and seventeen. That's really interesting. And hold on, I want to point this out too, because this is really fascinating. A lot of those guys, look what they did. They jumped into Concert Group and then they stayed there.

Ben Curtis: Wow. I have I don't think I've ever seen a relationship duration graph look like that where that much of the that overweighted portion of their book of business is in what the third year?

Raymond Moss: Yeah. And here's the thing. I really wonder if it has everything to do with that regulatory change. And it may be that Concert Group had a great independent contractor program and a great independent contractor product. And suddenly when the regulatory environment changed, All they did in that case is they changed the way that they appeared in the policy. They couldn't be an independent contractor. They had to have their own authority. And so it's the duration of relationship. But yeah, really great renewals on single units. That's so cool. And a lot of these guys,

Ben Curtis: Wow, interesting. Yeah. Okay, so let's clear California back out, finish our flyover of Concert Group here, and then we got two more to look at. So I see Tex

Raymond Moss: Alright, so another

Ben Curtis: Texas has let's just compare that, because California and Texas, two biggest states by policy count, it looks like. Totally different pictures. California just slightly negative, basically flat as far as net policies. Texas, way up.

Raymond Moss: Yeah, huge. They're up sixty five percent in Texas over the last year. Now, just for fun, I'm gonna put that single unit filter back in just to compare between Texas and California, because we just talked about the California picture. So here's what it looks like just in Texas. That again is sorry, I'm gonna get rid of that single unit. A lot of that growth in Texas is single unit as well.

Ben Curtis: It is, but not I mean, it was almost exclusively single unit in California. Look, a hundred and thirty five policies in Texas are single unit out of three hundred and thirty seven total policies. So much more balance there in the non fleet and

Raymond Moss: Right. Right.

Ben Curtis: small fleet.

Raymond Moss: Yep, absolutely. Yeah, way more balanced. Still a lot of single units, but way more balanced.

Ben Curtis: Okay, so while we're just on Texas, just stay on Texas for just a

Raymond Moss: let me put it back in there. Yep.

Ben Curtis: second. Cause of course I can see the one loss business chart. I want to see because Texas is such a competitive market, we've been looking at them a lot recently. So I want to see who their competitors are specifically in Texas there. Wow, look at can you just look at the numbers on Progressive for won lost business?

Raymond Moss: my goodness. So yeah, this is I feel that makes me think about another conversation that we had with another agency just recently, which was they were talking about rate changes and they were talking about how at least the way I interpreted this was that Progressive is trying to maybe defend their book by being a little bit more a little less intense on raising rates to try to, you know, maintain some of their customers. Because yeah, look at this Concert Group. took fifty from Progressive in Texas and they only lost ten to Progressive in Texas.

Ben Curtis: All right, so they're winning five to one against Progressive. Who's next on the list?

Raymond Moss: They're winning about two to one against GEICO.

Ben Curtis: Well, twenty one to seven, so that's three to one against Geico.

Raymond Moss: Well you're better at math than me, so there we go. yeah, you're right. that's funny. Literally a multiple of three, so you're right.

Ben Curtis: Yeah, wow. So they're so they're doing really Yeah, so overall, they're doing well. All right, we'll let's drop Texas off. Let's just look at their won lost business overall, just to kind of get a snapshot of that picture, and then we should probably move on from Concert Group here. If they're not taking appointments too, I want to see who they are losing business to, because I'm curious if there's opportunities

Raymond Moss: So here's another state though that they're big.

Ben Curtis: there for people to be aware of.

Raymond Moss: In Florida. not the biggest one, but I will note that it is, you know, Georgia has a decent number of in there, but forty seven percent growth in Florida over the last year. You know?

Ben Curtis: Yeah, wow

Raymond Moss: Let's see who their biggest competitor is there. I'm just gonna throw this in there. We'll just check and see. So I'm gonna filter by just Florida here. Wow, way more evenly spread.

Ben Curtis: Yeah. Not nearly as competitive a market obviously as Texas is. So they're growing they're growing well, but it is more spread out. They're not taking as much focused or concentrated business from competitors.

Raymond Moss: Right. They're not taking it from a specific competitor in bulk, you know, like they were in Texas.

Ben Curtis: All right, I noticed one thing if you clear the state filter out that I wanna point out here. Cause we have been looking at and we did recently in a few of these episodes, we've looked at some of the other market players who are just taking business from Accredited and I saw Accredited show up in the lost business to Concert Group here. So go down to the Concert Group. Are they taking business from Accredited? yeah.

Raymond Moss: Yeah, they are.

Ben Curtis: Second in the list.

Raymond Moss: Accredited — it appears as though Accredited is really having a hard time.

Ben Curtis: Yeah. Just can you just before we do you have anything else you want to look at here? Otherwise I wanna just peek at Accredited before we move on to our

Raymond Moss: Not with Concert Group. I think that's a good flyover of Concert Group. It's a newer entrant in the insurance market here for trucking. And it's always great to get a perspective of that. because if you're out there competing against them or you're trying to place business with them, it's good to know what they are doing. So yeah, that's a good flyover with Concert Group. Did you wanna open up a credit and see what's going on?

Ben Curtis: I just want to peek at Accredited before we move on. I just want to see the damage.

Raymond Moss: All right, let's see here. So we've got three writing papers. Boy.

Ben Curtis: my gosh.

Raymond Moss: Yeah, so for those of you who are not listening or who are just listening and you're not looking at this on YouTube, Accredited is down thirty six percent over the past year. And

Ben Curtis: They are they are bleeding from the gills, Ray.

Raymond Moss: Yeah, they are. And if you look at their renewal rate, it is like a bottomless bucket.

Ben Curtis: The word abysmal comes to mind.

Raymond Moss: Yeah, that's really rough. I will point out though that there's some strangely, some green states in here. So

Ben Curtis: Yeah, but look at those number of policies. We're at like single digit yeah, like Texas, a key market, just hover over that. What loss percentage do we have in Texas?

Raymond Moss: my gosh, seventy three percent.

Ben Curtis: in Texas over the last year down. I mean, if you're looking for business to move, I don't know what's going we need to do a deep dive on what's going on in with Accredited here because this is crazy.

Raymond Moss: Yeah. If you're if you're a if you're a producer or you're an agent in Texas, there's a lot of opportunity in Accredited's book. If you're an underwriter,

Ben Curtis: Or your underwriting against Accredited.

Raymond Moss: Yeah, as I was going to say, if you're an underwriter and you are, you know, underwriting against them and you're coming head to head and you're wondering, is Accredited gonna try to hold on to this? Well, they might try to hold on to it, but their fingers are slipping off that you know, seventy three percent of the time.

Ben Curtis: Okay, so maybe we'll come back to Accredited in a future podcast here and take a look, but let's move on with our new market players here. all right, you're distracted.

Raymond Moss: Hold on. Let me just point one more thing. Just because I accidentally moused over Florida and I noticed that look at the percentage that Accredited is down in Florida over the past year. 94%.

Ben Curtis: Okay, so what does that mean for numbers? They are down how many policies there?

Raymond Moss: A thousand fifteen.

Ben Curtis: They shed a thousand fifteen policies in the last year. And so how many are left? How many are left there? What was that ninety four sixty three left? my word.

Raymond Moss: Yeah, and let's just see where they went. Well, they have sixty-three left. Look, and they went everywhere. Look at this — of those thousand policies,

Ben Curtis: Clear blue.

Raymond Moss: Clear Blue took 108, Northland took eighty five, Canal took seventy one, Berkley took fifty eight, Sutton Specialty fifty seven, Brooklyn Specialty fifty seven, Progressive took fifty six. I could go on and on, but it's going all over the place. It's not like it's just moving to it's going everywhere.

Ben Curtis: Yeah, like I said, bleeding from the gills. Yikes.

Raymond Moss: Yeah. It would be real fun to talk to someone over at Accredited to see what's going on there. It makes me ask the question — are they just pulling out? Are they done? Did they get smashed in some way that we can't see? I don't know.

Ben Curtis: The only thing that's kind of bizarre is the fact that there still is some they're still writing some new business. So they just haven't they haven't just stopped writing business. But I don't know how you explain the renewal rate and the declines.

Raymond Moss: Well, because you said that, if I just switch this back to their entire book and I look at new business, you're right. They are writing some new business. So it's not like they just unplugged the new business machine, because they are adding thing to it.

Ben Curtis: Right. Their amount of new business is way down on a year-to-year basis, but they still have — they have thirty six hundred new business policies this year.

Raymond Moss: Yeah. Amazing. So there's still stuff that's going on.

Ben Curtis: Yeah. Okay. All right, shall we move on?

Raymond Moss: Yeah, let's do it.

Ben Curtis: Alright, so the next one we've got here, this is a a very new one relative to Concert Group even. but Emerald Bay. You familiar

Raymond Moss: yeah, let's check that out.

Ben Curtis: with the Emerald Bay paper?

Raymond Moss: I've seen it around and I've talked to some folks who are more familiar with it than I am. But yeah, look at that. It is a definitely new program. Look at that. So we have sixty-eight percent of the motor carriers that in Emerald Bay are first year, thirty-two percent of them are in their second year. Yeah, it is a definitely a new program that's out there and it is very regionally focused.

Ben Curtis: Yeah, it looks like just in the mid west there, primarily. Got one policy in

Raymond Moss: Here's something

Ben Curtis: Oklahoma.

Raymond Moss: here's something to point out. If you look at the safety complexion of the book, it's got a lot of red ISS.

Ben Curtis: Interesting. Yeah, over fifty percent red ISS.

Raymond Moss: Right. So it's got a lot of what I would call hairy business in it. Look, forty eight percent of those guys have hours of service alerts. So

Ben Curtis: Interesting.

Raymond Moss: there is a yeah, there is a decent number of hairy accounts in there. But I'll point this out as well. Look at their renewal rate on the first year. So not

Ben Curtis: Real.

Raymond Moss: yeah, not a ton has gotten to that first renewal yet, but of those that did, that's a good renewal rate.

Ben Curtis: Yeah, so we're at 70%, just to make sure we state it. Now,

Raymond Moss: Yes, yes.

Ben Curtis: they have 44 total policies right now. So we're looking at definitely

Raymond Moss: It's small.

Ben Curtis: small numbers. Be careful what you do with percentages with that small of numbers. But that definitely

Raymond Moss: Correct, correct.

Ben Curtis: is interesting because we've seen the outliers often are on the other side of that spectrum. It's very low numbers, not high. So that is interesting. I want to point out just a couple other things that stand out to me when you first load it up the screen. One is the unit count. Oftentimes very overweighted in single unit or small unit count. But look at this. The majority of their book is in that ten to forty nine unit. So they're looking for those nice fleets, the smaller

Raymond Moss: Yeah, that's cool.

Ben Curtis: size fleets.

Raymond Moss: They even have a couple fleets that are bigger than that. So this is a this is a program that appears to be great for a bit of hairier accounts that are decent sized fleets. So that's really cool.

Ben Curtis: And then the other thing I wanna that I notice here, it looks like their business is quite regional. Most of their policies are located in the Midwest, but look at the radius. Almost their entire book is that thousand plus radius. So even though they're local, they're not looking just for people operating in that area. They're looking for nationwide haulers, but domiciled in that Midwest region appears to be what their appetite is.

Raymond Moss: Yep. Very cool. Really cool to be able to see that. And you can see where they're taking it from.

Ben Curtis: And it looks and it looks like yeah, it looks like they're pretty diversified as well. No key market there necessarily.

Raymond Moss: Yeah, they took a couple from Canal, they took a couple from Spinnaker, a couple from Great West. I mean, they've gotten from a bunch of different places. So they've also lost a

Ben Curtis: Yeah, interesting.

Raymond Moss: couple different places as well. So it's not a there's no kind of focus in or out. It's more of a broad gathering here. That's really cool.

Ben Curtis: Yeah, it'd be interesting to learn how aggressive their appetite is and how much they're looking for new submissions or how selective they are. I mean, it does appear just based on the number of policies that maybe they're being fairly selective, but maybe also it's that their distribution is just not very large yet.

Raymond Moss: Right. Yeah. Yeah, they're early on. They're definitely early on.

Ben Curtis: I think I know some people have mentioned that they're writing through Great Lakes General Agency. Do you know if anybody else is writing on this paper or is it just Great Lakes?

Raymond Moss: I'm pretty sure it's just them. I do not believe that there's anyone else writing on that. So that would be I believe that is an exclusive program to them.

Ben Curtis: Okay, so if agencies are interested, they'd try and do that through Great Lakes general agency.

Raymond Moss: Yeah, and the fact that they have a decent first year renewal. I mean, that's great. That's some good underwriting then. That's very cool.

Ben Curtis: Yeah. Okay. The third one that I got on my list here, unless you've got something else you want to look at, is one we've actually looked at a couple of times, but we just have to look at them again, is Corgi. Now, they're not only new in the space, but they're in InsurTech. A couple weeks ago, we did an episode on InsurTechs, and we covered Corgi in that episode. Now they were like brand new on the market then, basically 30 days. So they've had about, I think about a month more time in the market now. I wanna say I didn't go back and check that episode. I think it was

Raymond Moss: How many policies did they have back then?

Ben Curtis: like forty, forty or sixty policies. I'd have to go back and

Raymond Moss: Yeah, it was low. It was something like that. I mean I was going to say like forty five or something. I can't remember. We'd have to go back and check, but it was something in the forty to sixty range.

Ben Curtis: So let's yeah, so pull their book up now. I mean, I looked at it the other day, but it is just tremendous what

Raymond Moss: Yeah, what's Corgi written on again?

Ben Curtis: that's a Carrier Guard paper.

Raymond Moss: Yeah, that's right. Alright, so let's Carrier Guard, here we go. And they are in RRG. Whoa, two hundred and seventy. That's really

Ben Curtis: Now,

Raymond Moss: cool.

Ben Curtis: yeah, now we did note that oftentimes that's heavy in single unit. That was one of the things we pointed out about Emerald

Raymond Moss: It is.

Ben Curtis: Bay being different. So this is true to that. You see the majority of their business is single unit and then a little bit of non fleet and just a handful of fleets so far.

Raymond Moss: Right. So a lot yeah, a lot of single unit that's in here. They don't have a single renewal yet because this is so new.

Ben Curtis: Yeah, in fact, just verify that if we go to 90 days ago, the as of 90 days ago, I believe they have nothing on this paper. Yeah, zero policies. So literally, with

Raymond Moss: Yeah, look at that. Nothing. Yeah, we are real now.

Ben Curtis: this is actually brand new market entrant here. So the

Raymond Moss: Yeah. Yeah. Well

Ben Curtis: other thing, if we look at those states, Ray, before when we had like the 45 policies, it was tough to tell where they were interested. Now you're starting to see where their appetite is really located. So California, a hundred and twenty seven policies, Texas, twenty nine policies, and then is that Georgia at twenty two? And Illinois.

Raymond Moss: Yep. And then up in Illinois. Yeah, that is really cool. That it's good to see exactly where their footprint is. And actually, one of the things I'll point out, you know, and you will have heard this if you went through our risk retention group episode, but the reason that they are able to shotgun out like that in all of these different states is because they're going under the regulatory apparatus of the risk retention group. So that is a characteristic of the risk retention groups that they can launch like this in so many different states because that is what they are. So interesting to see. It'll be fun to see if they pop into some of these other states. I assume that they will, but we will see that materialize. We can see where they're taking business, which is fun.

Ben Curtis: Yeah, notice who's number two in the list.

Raymond Moss: no, Accredited again. They keep popping up and in all the wrong places too. Yeah, Progressive they

Ben Curtis: Yeah. Yep. Okay, so a few other things that stand out to me here. Books that are heavy in single unit business tend to be lower in red ISS because most of those single unit

Raymond Moss: Yeah, that stood out.

Ben Curtis: carriers don't have the ISS score. They don't have enough data for the FMCSA to rank them. But what percentage

Raymond Moss: That stood out to me too.

Ben Curtis: do they still have in the overall book there?

Raymond Moss: they have twelve percent red ISS. Let me just

Ben Curtis: 12%. Let's take just the single unit business out. Because they don't have many fleets. But I'm just curious if all we do is take single unit out, what that jumps to. Because it does seem to be a little concerning the type of business they're writing with only single unit taken out.

Raymond Moss: 23%. Let's go the opposite way, because I want to peel back for our listeners on understanding that ISS a second. So look at that. Okay, so this is really interesting. 7%. I know that let's put it into context because this seven percent red ISS is more meaningful to me than the higher percentage red ISS I saw on the larger fleet count. And here's why. Because in order to have an ISS score actually even calculated by the FMCSA, in order for the government to give you an ISS score, you have to have enough data available to them to do a calculation. And that's for good reason. They don't want to miscalculate a score if you 'cause if you got one truck, I mean, how many times do they inspect you? If you got one truck, how many times it's difficult to collect enough information on a single unit motor carrier to have

Ben Curtis: Which is why so many single units don't have a rating.

Raymond Moss: Correct, right. But amazingly, seven percent of the single unit motor carriers in this book of business have red ISS. That is a worrisome from my perspective, characteristic of this book of business.

Ben Curtis: Yeah, it certainly gives reason for pause, I would say, because the question is that intentional and they know what they're doing, or are they so hungry for business they're not looking closely at the business they're writing? That would be the question I have.

Raymond Moss: Yeah, that is a really good question to ask. Yeah.

Ben Curtis: Now you said to put that in context, so I'm just curious. Leave the one unit filter on, pick any other insurance company out there with the single unit, and let's look at what percentage of red ISS somebody else has for single unit business. Great West, yeah.

Raymond Moss: Well let's just throw in here a really great quality underwriting group, Great West, and let's look at that. man, amazing. Look at that. Red ISS is zero percent and that

Ben Curtis: For great so just to clarify, Great West single unit business only, the percentage of red ISS is zero percent. And

Raymond Moss: Correct. That is

Ben Curtis: only and only one percent yellow.

Raymond Moss: Right. And the rest is either green or this category that's called insufficient, meaning they have insufficient data for the FMCSA to calculate a score for them because they're

Ben Curtis: Right. Okay, so everybody knows Great West writes pretty clean business. Let's say that's off the Corgi is we're taking the most from Progressive, I think it was. So let's see what Progressive looks like for single units.

Raymond Moss: All right, so Progressive single unit, this is gonna be Out of sixty thousand motor carriers, 'cause that's how many single units Progressive has right now, even they have only one percent

Ben Curtis: One percent

Raymond Moss: red ISS.

Ben Curtis: one percent red, one percent yellow. So once again, essentially only green or that insufficient data category. So that that gives some context for just how significant Corgi is on that red ISS category. The fact that's seven percent red and then what two percent yellow? So almost ten percent of

Raymond Moss: Is

Ben Curtis: even their single unit business is either. Yellow or red ISS.

Raymond Moss: Yeah. That is I would say a worrisome thing. It just simply is.

Ben Curtis: But it does also mean for motor carriers that fit that criteria, it looks like Corgi's interested, so you've got a market, you've got a home somewhere.

Raymond Moss: Yeah, yeah. And actually yeah, I won't get I got all sorts of thoughts on that, but that is very true. So there is a market out there to serve everyone, which is the beauty of capitalism, right? And this might just be where someone needs to be while they repair their reputation if they're a motor carrier that struggles with that rating, that safety rating.

Ben Curtis: Yep. All right. So everything's in the last like sixty, ninety day days here. It will be interesting as we get closer to a year past that first year to see what they do with renewals. I'm also curious to see what percentage of their book of business we see just age out of the market or go out of business because that is motor carriers like that are suspect for whether they're even gonna survive. So those will be some interesting things to continue to watch in the days ahead here.

Raymond Moss: Yep, absolutely. Very cool.

Ben Curtis: All right, so the other topic we wanted to cover is just relevant industry updates. And interesting, we ended on Corgi here, and the most interesting industry update that I have that I wanted to talk to you about here today is also related to the InsurTech space, and that is did you see the announcement of HDVI got acquired?

Raymond Moss: yeah. Yeah, they did. HDVI got acquired by, I believe, Federated.

Ben Curtis: Yeah. And I don't know a whole lot about it. Have you heard many people talking about that yet?

Raymond Moss: I've heard a I've heard a couple of comments. The day that it I think the day that it happened I heard from a couple of different people because people wanted to suddenly look at HDVI's book of business and what other way do you do that than in DOT Analysis? So I think there was a decent number of people that based on who reached out to me at least and I'm sure that was a topic of conversation elsewhere as well, they wanted to kind of put a mental stake in the sand to say, okay This is where HDVI is at right now. They're getting acquired. I in the announcement from Federated, they had said or rather in the announcement from HDVI, I remember reading something about how Federated was

Ben Curtis: I did just send you the link if you want to throw it up on the screen here. And I'll and I'll

Raymond Moss: you did okay, yeah.

Ben Curtis: I'll put the I'll put the link to the announcement in the show notes here, so feel free to link to that if you want to read the full thing.

Raymond Moss: Yeah, High Definition Vehicle Insurance acquired by Federated Mutual Insurance Company. Yeah, I remember reading this and there's something in here about, you know, the great strategic investment that this represents from Federated and how Federated was planning on injecting some fantastic capital in to HDVI in order to grow it. So the people who had reached out, I think what they were trying to do, and really what I thought as well is let me get a good understanding of where HDVI is at right now. Because as everybody knows, you can't just instantaneously grow a trucking book. You know, especially with someone like HDVI who's focused on fleets. I mean, there's at least ninety, hundred and twenty-day lead time to

Ben Curtis: Well Ray, you you think you can't instantly grow a trucking book. Corgi seems to think they can. I'm not sure you can instantly grow a quality trucking book.

Raymond Moss: That's right. Yes. All right. That is a very good point. So HDVI, I believe, is focused more on quality. And so I will be interested to see what they look like in six months and in a year, because that's the reasonable time frame that you would be able to at the earliest see what they're doing.

Ben Curtis: You know, the other thing, I think back again in the InsurTech episode we recorded a few weeks ago here, we compared HDVI and Nirvana side by side and we've been kind of tracking that for a while. It's kind of interesting how both of them coming on the scene around the same time that Nirvana has grown about a three times the size book that HDVI did. And so I am curious to see if this move is gonna affect their appetite at all. Both in the type of business they're writing and the amount of business they're writing. Is this gonna are they gonna try and compete more head to head with Nirvana? That'll be interesting to watch. I wonder if they're gonna target Nirvana's business or if they will develop their own niche and target different type of business than what Nirvana is. So we'll monitor that over time.

Raymond Moss: Well, we'll monitor that and we'll be able to see that in DOT Analysis on the Market Intelligence and Market Explorer dashboards. That will be really fun to see that unfold.

Ben Curtis: Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Well, Let us know if there's a unique new market player on the insurer side that you think we should take a look at, and we'll be happy to explore that in a future episode.

Raymond Moss: All right, until then, have a great week. We'll see you next time.